winter dh clarence

[agent laraby]

http://tasimages.com/EVENTS/2010/index. ... 2025-07-10 images even more sexy than results. young toff shot with tasimages and got some great shots, dont pinch 'em kids or ill make a fish bowl out of your head

if you can afford a TLD helmet or similar, a bike to ride, weetbix to make you big and strong, you can afford the images. if people keep flogging them we wont shoot.

we stnd around all day to get shots when we could be riding .so respect the time taken to this for you and man up with some coin if you want a pic. or if you want to do the iphone scumbag thing , let me know if you prefer tropical or temperate water fish. ( i recomend tropical as the are more soothing to the eye and will be more calming for your loved ones as ponder their new aquiraim addition to the pool room. )

enjoy the shots
cheers duncan giblin

[Winga]

question. Are digital images royalty free? ie If i buy can i use wherever i want?

[ferntreekid]

not 100% sure (correct me if i'm wrong) but i think even if you purchase the image you can't use it for certain things. i read up on this ages ago and can't remember specifically, but i think i think it works out to private and non-commercial use only...

[frozenhole.com]

http://tasimages.com/EVENTS/2010/index.html?openfolder=MTB/Clarence%20DH%2025-07-10 images even more sexy than results. young toff shot with tasimages and got some great shots, dont pinch 'em kids or ill make a fish bowl out of your head

if you can afford a TLD helmet or similar, a bike to ride, weetbix to make you big and strong, you can afford the images. if people keep flogging them we wont shoot.

we stnd around all day to get shots when we could be riding .so respect the time taken to this for you and man up with some coin if you want a pic. or if you want to do the iphone scumbag thing , let me know if you prefer tropical or temperate water fish. ( i recomend tropical as the are more soothing to the eye and will be more calming for your loved ones as ponder their new aquiraim addition to the pool room. )

enjoy the shots
cheers duncan giblin

That's a pretty poor attitude if you're actually serious?

You stand around taking shots because you want to make money. Nobody is forcing/begging you too. The images that I've seen are no better than a lot the people post on here and they state riders are free to use. Every second kid has a digi slr with an L series lens on the front (well maybe a slight exaggeration, but there sure are a hell of a lot of nice setups at the races and ride days). Hell I even got approached by Fox racing shox asking to use a shot of mine from the national round and all I asked for was a tee as I didn't think the shot was professional enough to use (I run a 40D with 17-40L and a stock standard 75-300).

I think if you want people to purchase images, the ones you present need to be next level and more creative. Not just point at a corner and shoot when a rider comes around.

[woody_uk71]

That's a pretty poor attitude if you're actually serious?

This is a good point, as you say we don't ask for our photograph to be taken though we all enjoy viewing the images, I reckon it comes down to this:

Does the rider want to be photographed, is this a condition of entry or does a rider have the right to say no (not quite sure why they would or how this might be arranged),

When a rider purchases an image (and lets face it, they're not expensive..!!), he/she enters into a contract (copyright rules), though I believe the rider should be able to use the image however they wish once purchased as long as it is not for commercial gain,

Finally, if a third party wishes to purchase an image for commercial reasons, I wonder how much (if any) of the revenue might legitimately reach the rider (or does the flow of royalties stop at the photographer)?

All very tricky in the real world I'm sure, though we shouldn't get too hung up on this and simply enjoy the fact that there are people out there taking great pictures...!!

[Toff]

That's a pretty poor attitude if you're actually serious?

You stand around taking shots because you want to make money. Nobody is forcing/begging you too. The images that I've seen are no better than a lot the people post on here and they state riders are free to use. Every second kid has a digi slr with an L series lens on the front (well maybe a slight exaggeration, but there sure are a hell of a lot of nice setups at the races and ride days). Hell I even got approached by Fox racing shox asking to use a shot of mine from the national round and all I asked for was a tee as I didn't think the shot was professional enough to use (I run a 40D with 17-40L and a stock standard 75-300).

I think if you want people to purchase images, the ones you present need to be next level and more creative. Not just point at a corner and shoot when a rider comes around.

Just because someone has a nice setup, doesn't automatically make them a good photographer. I'm shooting with an entry level DSLR and 3rd party glass w/ cheap strobes, hardly a 1DsMkIII w/ L-series equivalent..

As for the quality of shots, I'll let people compare my shots with the others available and make up their own mind. But is creativity really what people want? If I was racing, I'd rather have a photo that I can clearly see myself in rather than some artsy 'graph.

If people want to give away their shots, that's their choice, but don't go saying that we should do the same just because someone else is. If you gave away a shot of your own for a pittance then that's your own fault for not having confidence in your photos.

I feel I should point out that I am in no way shape or form making a profit out of taking these photos. The amount of money I've made out of race photos is f*ck all compared to the money spent on gear, transport etc.

And no, I don't "stand around taking shots because I want to make money". I take photos because I enjoy it, It's good development and it's a good way to socialize/ keep up to date with the local racing scene. I put my photos up on Tasimages because I think they're of a high enough standard to pay a measly $15, which gets you the full size image which is suitable for printing up to A3 size.

[agent laraby]

what im saying is this frozen hole if you choose them from a pay site its its simple, pay for them. dont steal them !

whether you ask us to be there or not does not mean you can steal. if you want to discuss in person why we charge what we do give me a bell 0448 599 612 and we can catch up in person . some people apparently think our photos are better than those taken by kids with DSLRS as you describe as they have both boutght them and taken them illegelly . i also think there are some excellent shots coming from "kids with dslrs "and these guys should be supported and encouraged one the things me and tony are looking at how we can do this. and have already started to encourage some younger photogs to submit their work . heres a theory for you if we helped them sell some shots they could get more equipment and travel to more events if they can cover their transport accom/costs. most photgraphers start of earning small amounts to increase their equipment range i just dont see any thing wrong with that. but you do thats fine. if you work and your boss said hey paul i think your attitude is poor because you expect money so you have to turn up i am not going to pay you , well youd tell him to fuck off i reckon.

descrbing my shots as point and shoot... look i could react and critique your efforts but all say to you paul ,i enjoy what i do and i have had many purchases, comerical work, published work and compliments for my shots. i would encourage anyone to try and improve their creativity no matter what level they are at as it makes the whole process enjoyable. if anyone thinks they are the shit then they are a moron, you never stop learning. there is always someone better and there is always someone who has more to learn .

you obviously dont think our shots are worth what we charge fair enough mate thats your opinon , no one is forcing / begging you or anyone to have them just saying saying dont flog them if you want them.

I think stealing from people is a poor attitude . if you think some ones free image is better than ours then take it but if you want one of ours then pay for it. its really simple paul.

trying to run me down personally doesnt change the fact that if you want a photo from tasimages you have to pay for it. if our motivation was to make money only we wouldnt turn up at winter series downhill races mate. but we want to recover some costs thats our choice just as it is for people choose to buy or not to buy , but steal that = no

just because we charge for things doesnt mean we dont enjoy doing it. nor does it mean we are not supportive of mountainbiking , i have given up months of my time for xc courses and events and have helped with dh and other events like the nats.

thanks for that frozen hole havent had good rant on pedalbite for ages since i bitched about not enough people coming to track days.

enjoy your riding and enjoy your shooting see you out there on the trails .

cheeers duncan giblin

[MattyHOPE]

I really enjoyed the pics guys! Great work!! Thanks for taking the time to shoot the race. I cant understand why anyone would have a problem paying for a great photo of themselves doing something they enjoy. Maybe the massive $5 entry has already stretched their racing budget too far... Cheers. Matty

[Winga]

Firstly i would just like to say thanks and that i fully believe that you guys deserve to get paid for your efforts.. and.. if i like a photo i have no problem spending 15 dollars to buy the image (and for everyone else who thinks that is expensive, it isn't. In my profession we deal with sites like gettyimages.com and jupiter images where the average price of an image is in the hundreds).

I do want to make the point that if you want to sell images.. having the kind of attitude that is displayed in the first comment is not really the way to go about it. In the end i bought 5 of myself and my brother, however the whole experience left a sour taste in my mouth - basically because i feel like i've been burned for doing the right thing.

Maybe in the future a simple, non personal, reminder that the images are FOR SALE and that a breach of copyright notice will be issued to those who are found using images (without paying) would be suffice. - I'm sure you won't need to follow up on many of these before people get the message.

If i might put forward another suggestion... While i realise that the images are already VERY cheap, many of the riders are young, at school, and with out jobs. You may very well make more money if you offered a smaller res image for small local races like this (ie 500x300 @ 72dpi) at an even further reduced price for dedicated facebook/social media use.

Edit: Just wanted to say again that i do appreciate you guys getting out there, and i think your photos are sweet. As an after thought.. I would say that your original comment Is probably supposed to be more 'tongue in cheek' than anything else - However this being a bit of a touchy subject i'd suggest trying the impersonal approach in the future so that things don't come accross the wrong way.

Cheers,

Ben

[frozenhole.com]

OK here we go..........

Toff you're first.

As for the quality of shots, I'll let people compare my shots with the others available and make up their own mind. But is creativity really what people want? If I was racing, I'd rather have a photo that I can clearly see myself in rather than some artsy 'graph.

By creativity I mean something better than a front on shot of someone after they have come out of a corner. Get some different angles going. You know exactlywhat I mean and my opinion doesn't count for everyone else. It's a forum.

If people want to give away their shots, that's their choice, but don't go saying that we should do the same just because someone else is. If you gave away a shot of your own for a pittance then that's your own fault for not having confidence in your photos.

I feel I should point out that I am in no way shape or form making a profit out of taking these photos. The amount of money I've made out of race photos is f*ck all compared to the money spent on gear, transport etc.

Not saying you should do the same. I'm saying there is little to no difference in your shots to others on here and if someone can get a free pic to put on their facebook or myspace (which is what most of the young guys do), why would they spend $15 on a pic for that? Sure if it was an epic shot who wouldn't pay for a RAW and get it printed? You'd be daft not too. I'm a realist, and I do it for enjoyment, I'm not going to try and make a buck for a second rate image just because there's a chance. You will never break even. Half the guys down here who get hundreds of shots run in surf mags don't even cover the cost of their gear and travel, they do it for the lifestyle.


Now onto Duncan...

what im saying is this frozen hole if you choose them from a pay site its its simple, pay for them. dont steal them !

Welcome to the internet. You have watermarks on them so there isn't much you can do with a low res watermarked image(thats about the best you can do to prevent it). If it ends up on myspace/facebook then at least its a form of free advertising and you may get someone you normally wouldn't get come to your site and they might buy a couple. Long shot? Yes maybe, but anythings possible.

whether you ask us to be there or not does not mean you can steal. if you want to discuss in person why we charge what we do give me a bell 0448 599 612 and we can catch up in person.

I did not say it was ok to steal images. I have just said it happens and you have to do what you can and try to put a positive spin on it. Be stoked that someone is happy with a shitty quality watermarked image and if you run into them at a race go hey I noticed you like my shot maybe next time you could buy one if you like it so ypu can get it printed?

Some people apparently think our photos are better than those taken by kids with DSLRS as you describe as they have both boutght them and taken them illegelly . i also think there are some excellent shots coming from "kids with dslrs "and these guys should be supported and encouraged one the things me and tony are looking at how we can do this. and have already started to encourage some younger photogs to submit their work . heres a theory for you if we helped them sell some shots they could get more equipment and travel to more events if they can cover their transport accom/costs. most photgraphers start of earning small amounts to increase their equipment range i just dont see any thing wrong with that. but you do thats fine. if you work and your boss said hey paul i think your attitude is poor because you expect money so you have to turn up i am not going to pay you , well youd tell him to fuck off i reckon.

That's just my opinion, I don't speak for everyone on here. All I said was there is not much difference in your shots than the others that go up. You're reading way too much into it. I'm not saying don't help the younger crew at all, you really did need a good vent hey? And on your work comment, you're grasping at straws. Anyone would be fired if they turned up and demanded to be paid or I will cut their skull open and turn it into a fish tank.

descrbing my shots as point and shoot... look i could react and critique your efforts but all say to you paul ,i enjoy what i do and i have had many purchases, comerical work, published work and compliments for my shots. i would encourage anyone to try and improve their creativity no matter what level they are at as it makes the whole process enjoyable. if anyone thinks they are the shit then they are a moron, you never stop learning. there is always someone better and there is always someone who has more to learn .

A front on shot of a rider is well point and shoot in my books. For downhill what the point? It doesn't capture what DH all about. There were a couple of shots you guys took of me in the super d and I didn't buy them because I didn't like them, nothing against you. I didn't save them and reuse them either. Please give me feedback on my shots, I'm far from a pro bike photog, I rarely do it. I've spent most of my time with my first and only digi slr taking shots on the mountain etc. http://www.redbubble.com/people/PaulHutchins Feel free to tell me where I've gone wrong on my photo's it may help me next time.

I think stealing from people is a poor attitude . if you think some ones free image is better than ours then take it but if you want one of ours then pay for it. its really simple paul.

Couldn't agree with you more. Stealing is poor but like I said... welcome to the internet and you're doing all that you can and look at it as a form of free advertising. I have run Tasmania's only bodyboarding site for the last 12 years and I am still seeing images pop up on the net that people have poached from my site. If you had a shot run on Dirt or Vital that was taken by Sven or Gary would you save it and use it on your facebook page? I know I would and I'd give them credit for it.

just because we charge for things doesnt mean we dont enjoy doing it. nor does it mean we are not supportive of mountainbiking , i have given up months of my time for xc courses and events and have helped with dh and other events like the nats.

thanks for that frozen hole havent had good rant on pedalbite for ages since i bitched about not enough people coming to track days.

I've given up years building the original grassy valley jump park which is now the Clarence bike park and maintaining the Tranmere DH trails. That's trail building, you spend a lot of time doing it without all the people that will appear once its finished.

Wow that really killed my head after some post work beers. Sorry if I've missed something I'll take another look tomorrow.

In conclusion... you will never stop people stealing pictures, do what you can.

Posting a message saying here are some pics and getting angry and threatening people is probably not good for business?

Over and out.

Paul

[agent laraby]

yes paul i know you cant stop it , you cant stop shoplifting either that doesnt make it ok to me.

had a look at your redbubble site ,and you asked for my feedback - have a look at rob blakers, late dombrovski , wolfgang glowacki......, and then tell me whats different with your work and what is creative about it. it think technically the work is good, very good, but not very unique or creative. work on what your signature is and your work may become interesting. ive also had a good look at your mtb shots and dont think your in any position to critcise toff, i think if you applied the same technical qualtiy that you do with your wilderness shots they would be a a lot better. have a look at josh macdonalds shots he can be technically brilliant and still capture the passion of racing /riding. i am sure you wont take this personally as you are quite comfortable in providing your opinion on other peoples work.

re ben
yeah it was tongue in cheek and probably should have been worded better but to be fair we have coantacted a alot of people privatley and asked them to purchase the image or take it down and , some people have been great and we really respect them for that , some people havent. it certainly wasnt meant to offend people who are doing the right thing, if i offend those who are doing the wrong thing i dont mind.

we have also been discusing the pros and cons of low res images for social media im not sure on it yet . but thanks for your input its a tricky one. i wonder is it would make a difference , i can feel a pedalbite poll coming on.


cheers duncan

[frozenhole.com]

yes paul i know you cant stop it , you cant stop shoplifting either that doesnt make it ok to me.

had a look at your redbubble site ,and you asked for my feedback - have a look at rob blakers, late dombrovski , wolfgang glowacki......, and then tell me whats different with your work and what is creative about it. it think technically the work is good, very good, but not very unique or creative. work on what your signature is and your work may become interesting. ive also had a good look at your mtb shots and dont think your in any position to critcise toff, i think if you applied the same technical qualtiy that you do with your wilderness shots they would be a a lot better. have a look at josh macdonalds shots he can be technically brilliant and still capture the passion of racing /riding. i am sure you wont take this personally as you are quite comfortable in providing your opinion on other peoples work.

Of course it's not fine but you're trying to run a business from selling photo's and by coming on here putting the hard word on everyone and basically threatening them it won't do you any good. As winga said the whole experience has left a sour taste in his mouth. Instead of getting on here flaming everyone then do something about it via the legal system if you are so serious. I'm sure if one person was charged for stealing one of your photo's nobody else would bother as word would travel pretty fast.

R.E. my shots, thanks for checking them out. That's why I'm not a professional photographer and stick to graphic/web design as my day job. I haven't said that my shots were any better I was just stating an opinion that the shots you guys put up are really no different to anyone elses and thats why people may not be purchasing them.

Photography is just a bit of fun for me, simple as that. I don't plan on making any money out of it. The difference between mine and Tasimages photos is that I'm not trying to sell my shots and if you checked out how many times I've shot riding you could count them on one hand. I openly claim my shot are very average... that's why I don't sell them.

Anyway it feel's like we're starting to move away from the original point I made and I have nothing left to say.

Goodluck with your images and I may run into you at a race or on a trail sometime.

Cheers,

Paul

[agent laraby]

you shall see me on trail .
people are purchasing them (tasimages photos) some people have also flogged them which was my point originally.

have a good one

duncan